NYC spends $43,000 per student. Quality? NYC is famous for driving couples away after having their first kid, cause private schools are unobtainable and public schools unacceptable. For comparison, Japan, which puts NYC to shame, spends around $10k/student. This k-12 education spending gravy train can't continue.
I’m sorry, but these kinds of missives from a political movement led by an aging, incoherent politician who can’t form complete sentences ring a little hollow. The author worries about the reading prowess of 18 year olds when we have a commander in chief who can’t manage to read the presidential daily brief, assuming he can actually read… Welcome to the “new” right.
Meanwhile, all informed citizens need to read Don’s daily bleats, in their entirety. And watch his public statements, in their entirety. But, brace yourself first.
How in the hell do you get the current president invoked in this discussion. If his comms skills bother you address that when the discussion is regarding competence.....Remember Joe B was overall a non communicator
I agree Joepa was also incoherent, though I'd argue Don is even worse, with almost 3 years left to decline even further. But Joepa isn't the president, Don is. I sense you don't actually read his daily bleats, or watch his press conferences. War is serious, we need to admit the truth about our president.
I voted for Trump 3 times but now consider him a disaster. Would open borders, down with meritocracy, up with equity Kamala and the democrats have been any better? Not that I can see. If they regain power they’ll just go right back to their goals of destroying Trump/MAGA, importing more illegals for political gain and replacing meritocracy with equity aka race based equal outcomes.
Love Trump or hate Trump, ya gotta admit that the effect he has on people like Karl and the Democrats is sooooo entertaining. These people are good for a laugh and make it worth having to listen to some of Trump's more insane comments. I think Trump does it just to troll people like Karl. - Meanwhile Trump has delivered on pretty much all of his campaign promises - Love the The Signal, not the noise.
Hey Ed! Glad you think things are going well, and that governing is entertainment. Silly war, tis merely a joke! As a lifelong conservative I have a different view. But, I sense a little guilt over your devotion to a cult gone bad? Meanwhile, send Don lotsa money, his crypto corruption has limits ya know:)
It’s been such fun to watch “conservative” leaders dump Don, leaving only the hard core cultists as supporters. It’s such an impressive group. Candace, Marg, Nick, Tucker…
Wow... Are you getting therapy for that TDS? I saw nothing in this article that mentioned Trump or a single policy of his. You people need to get out, take a break, touch some grass, get a shrink. I feel bad for you dude
What makes me chuckle is the swap underway. My former party, the Republican Party, is rapidly shedding college educated voters, while D’s shed non-college voters. There’s a reason for that…
But hey, good luck as a Don disciple, I’m glad you hold him up as a role model. We all need hero’s:)
What on Earth are you talking about? Did you read the article that you're commenting on? Your comments are bizarrely, crazily, out in left field. Get some help!
useless blah blah coming from somebody who supports a party that dont even know the difference between a man an a woman , puts illegal aliens above americans and has nothing to offer to blue collar americans !
What have democrats done for me lately ? the answer is nothing .
One day they talk about how gas is too cheap and how the government has to find a way to raise the price of gas to entice people to buy EVs the nexy day when gas prices go up because of the war they complain about it.
They complain about trump attacking iran but if he would not have attacked and iran gotten a nuke and used it in a terror attack on the US than they would be the first to blame trump too !
They talk about affordability but if they are so concerned about the cost of living and know how to fix it than why is CA the most expensive state in the union ?
I think the arguments made are rather weak. There are many assertions made that a survey of data does not necessarily support. I have 3 adult children who have acquired advanced degrees and are quite competent. A doctor, architect and electrical engineer. All received high quality educations. My experience makes me sceptical of the premise.
I have an EE, too. There are ed programs that are more akin trade schools, albeit more sophisticated versions. Medicine would be another. These needs labs and hands on training, sort of like an apprenticeship. I did research for my grad EE degree, and built physical things. AI could not replace this experience. However, let's turn the page and look at say, a undergrad history degree. Which is more along the target this author is after. Is History valuable, as a degree? Sure. But what justifies what is today a $500k degree price tag? The tools are... books. Lectures, and some interaction. You can't tell me tech can't trim off a lot of fat for that education product. Ditto for most of liberal arts core degrees: English, languages, etc.
Whether it was computer controlled machines , computers or robots it was always blue collar america that bore the brunt of technological innovations , while factory joe got the pink slip after 20 years of service his neighbor who worked in skilled trades or his son in law working as a engineer at a aerospace plant designing things rested assured that their job was fairly safe , no machine or computer was ever going to take their job .
AI is a game changer because it aims not at manual tasks that require skills but rather at jobs that require brainpower and this goes at the throat of many jobs most of them requiring a college degree !
Let me give one example :
lets say you are designing amplifiers , you have a engineer pick the best topology for the design ,then select the devices best suited ,he creates a design and simulates it , he makes changes until it meets the requirements ,then another engineer creates a circuit board design while yet another engineer designs the mechanics ,all in all the process takes months .
But now imagine you have a piece of software on your computer , you enter the specification you want the design to meet including the dimensions and anything else you can think of then you push the button and AI goes to work ..... a few hours later the computer spits out a few proposed designs for you to look at ,you review them and tell the computer what you dont like and he makes the changes ...
Once you approve one final design the computer spits out all files you need to build it all you do is to send them off.
Its easy to see that this no longer requires a college degree and this means that many engineering jobs will go away !
But its not just engineering , actors , musicians , songwriters , screenwriters , setbuilders and many others associated with the movie industry will be affected too .
Imagine watching titanic but you dont like to see jack die ..... you tell AI to alter the end of the movie and one minute later rose wakes up as a old lady with jack by her side .... she only dreamed the whole thing ! AI can make movies or create songs that can be personalized by the consumer and this is going to be a game changer
I worked at a major university for years as a research engineer and when i was hired i was surprised to see what you can get a degree in , then i sat back and could not help but wonder how many folks that enrolled into some of those degrees actually ended up getting a job that paid a good salary .
It would be interesting to do a study one time to see what degrees students that defaulted on or are behind on their student loans graduated in .
This problem might not be as intractable as it appears.
Yes, AI can write papers for you. But the classic exam is in-class with a blue book and no computer.
If colleges have courage, they'll solve the AI problem by simply administering exams the old fashioned way. Colleges lacking that courage will quickly become known as unreliable sources for new hires.
The simplest way I can see employers figure out who to hire is... TEST YOUR CANDIDATES. I think there's an opportunity here for just that. Wide ranging testing to find the best candidate is already being done. See the NYPD recruitment process for a good example
Testing has a “disparate impact” on blacks which is considered racist and unacceptable. Chicago’s fire dept. was sued for that I think in 2011 and fined $110M plus the passing score was lowered from 85 to 65 to insure equity. This is common all over the country. Heather MacDonald has written and has YouTube videos about it. She says it’s destroying our civilization. It already has.
"Rather, it is the manifestation of continual adjustments to the economic and technological capabilities and demands of the day."
If this is true, then why wouldn't it continue? If administrators and professors have adapted and adopted new technology, why is "accelerationism" all of a sudden necessary?
Many degrees are and will remain difficult. AI can do discrete mathematics, but it can't take a test in it, and to pass a test, in organic chemistry, or any of the other difficult math or science courses at a good university, you have to be smart and have studied.
I'd rather see a way for students to test out, in high school and college. The money saved in K-12 is potentially huge. How much does it cost to teach one student American History in High School? Pay half that to test out. Similarly with Algebra or Geometry. Kids could buy cars by testing out, teachers could take classes in auto repair.
I'm not persuaded. Especially when I see the claim in the essay that college students can't read a book, but following the link shows an article about college students failing because they can't read a book. The essay somehow neglected to mention the "failing" bit. In general, students at all levels are cheating a lot (and yes, misrepresenting AI's work as your own is cheating), but this is nothing new: students were using various sites to cheat before large language models were a thing. Throughout the pandemic, students were gaming "remote" exam systems to cheat, too. Yes, I suppose the value of college degrees will diminish for colleges who generally allow students to graduate by cheating their way through, and no doubt some short-sighted colleges will succumb to the temptation to close their eyes to the cheating and just collect the tuition. I suppose I can accept that the value of those particular colleges' degrees will go to zero. But colleges that require students to actually learn will persist, they will address the cheating as they have addressed cheating before, and the value of such degrees will remain.
EOs not withstanding, as long as Griggs v Duke Power is on the books, employers will continue to use degrees as a sorting mechanism until it becomes too painful to do so. By painful, I mean some sort of spectacular collapse caused by an incompetent employee. My first thought was that it would be a government employer but government is impervious to this. Perhaps something in the physical world then. Planes falling from sky, bridges collapsing. All this has happened before but not at scale.
Add K-12 to this discussion as well! https://futureoflearningdrtwrye.substack.com/
NYC spends $43,000 per student. Quality? NYC is famous for driving couples away after having their first kid, cause private schools are unobtainable and public schools unacceptable. For comparison, Japan, which puts NYC to shame, spends around $10k/student. This k-12 education spending gravy train can't continue.
about 75% of degrees offered by colleges today are worthless because there is no job market for them
I’m sorry, but these kinds of missives from a political movement led by an aging, incoherent politician who can’t form complete sentences ring a little hollow. The author worries about the reading prowess of 18 year olds when we have a commander in chief who can’t manage to read the presidential daily brief, assuming he can actually read… Welcome to the “new” right.
Meanwhile, all informed citizens need to read Don’s daily bleats, in their entirety. And watch his public statements, in their entirety. But, brace yourself first.
Good luck America. Pray for our soldiers.
How in the hell do you get the current president invoked in this discussion. If his comms skills bother you address that when the discussion is regarding competence.....Remember Joe B was overall a non communicator
I agree Joepa was also incoherent, though I'd argue Don is even worse, with almost 3 years left to decline even further. But Joepa isn't the president, Don is. I sense you don't actually read his daily bleats, or watch his press conferences. War is serious, we need to admit the truth about our president.
I voted for Trump 3 times but now consider him a disaster. Would open borders, down with meritocracy, up with equity Kamala and the democrats have been any better? Not that I can see. If they regain power they’ll just go right back to their goals of destroying Trump/MAGA, importing more illegals for political gain and replacing meritocracy with equity aka race based equal outcomes.
Love Trump or hate Trump, ya gotta admit that the effect he has on people like Karl and the Democrats is sooooo entertaining. These people are good for a laugh and make it worth having to listen to some of Trump's more insane comments. I think Trump does it just to troll people like Karl. - Meanwhile Trump has delivered on pretty much all of his campaign promises - Love the The Signal, not the noise.
Hey Ed! Glad you think things are going well, and that governing is entertainment. Silly war, tis merely a joke! As a lifelong conservative I have a different view. But, I sense a little guilt over your devotion to a cult gone bad? Meanwhile, send Don lotsa money, his crypto corruption has limits ya know:)
It’s been such fun to watch “conservative” leaders dump Don, leaving only the hard core cultists as supporters. It’s such an impressive group. Candace, Marg, Nick, Tucker…
Be well Ed.
Wow... Are you getting therapy for that TDS? I saw nothing in this article that mentioned Trump or a single policy of his. You people need to get out, take a break, touch some grass, get a shrink. I feel bad for you dude
What makes me chuckle is the swap underway. My former party, the Republican Party, is rapidly shedding college educated voters, while D’s shed non-college voters. There’s a reason for that…
But hey, good luck as a Don disciple, I’m glad you hold him up as a role model. We all need hero’s:)
To have your TDS triggered in response to this piece that has nothing to do with it, suggests a truly remarkable level of affliction.
Enjoy the cult. And MAGA’s Middle East war. I love you guys, when cornered, all you’re left with is the TDS lament. Never an issue.
Here’s hoping your son apes Don, what could make you more proud?
What on Earth are you talking about? Did you read the article that you're commenting on? Your comments are bizarrely, crazily, out in left field. Get some help!
Oh yes I read how concerned Commonplace is about education. Kiddos can't read!
I guess the irony doesn't register?
Keep on believin my friend:)
useless blah blah coming from somebody who supports a party that dont even know the difference between a man an a woman , puts illegal aliens above americans and has nothing to offer to blue collar americans !
What have democrats done for me lately ? the answer is nothing .
One day they talk about how gas is too cheap and how the government has to find a way to raise the price of gas to entice people to buy EVs the nexy day when gas prices go up because of the war they complain about it.
They complain about trump attacking iran but if he would not have attacked and iran gotten a nuke and used it in a terror attack on the US than they would be the first to blame trump too !
They talk about affordability but if they are so concerned about the cost of living and know how to fix it than why is CA the most expensive state in the union ?
I think the arguments made are rather weak. There are many assertions made that a survey of data does not necessarily support. I have 3 adult children who have acquired advanced degrees and are quite competent. A doctor, architect and electrical engineer. All received high quality educations. My experience makes me sceptical of the premise.
I have an EE, too. There are ed programs that are more akin trade schools, albeit more sophisticated versions. Medicine would be another. These needs labs and hands on training, sort of like an apprenticeship. I did research for my grad EE degree, and built physical things. AI could not replace this experience. However, let's turn the page and look at say, a undergrad history degree. Which is more along the target this author is after. Is History valuable, as a degree? Sure. But what justifies what is today a $500k degree price tag? The tools are... books. Lectures, and some interaction. You can't tell me tech can't trim off a lot of fat for that education product. Ditto for most of liberal arts core degrees: English, languages, etc.
Whether it was computer controlled machines , computers or robots it was always blue collar america that bore the brunt of technological innovations , while factory joe got the pink slip after 20 years of service his neighbor who worked in skilled trades or his son in law working as a engineer at a aerospace plant designing things rested assured that their job was fairly safe , no machine or computer was ever going to take their job .
AI is a game changer because it aims not at manual tasks that require skills but rather at jobs that require brainpower and this goes at the throat of many jobs most of them requiring a college degree !
Let me give one example :
lets say you are designing amplifiers , you have a engineer pick the best topology for the design ,then select the devices best suited ,he creates a design and simulates it , he makes changes until it meets the requirements ,then another engineer creates a circuit board design while yet another engineer designs the mechanics ,all in all the process takes months .
But now imagine you have a piece of software on your computer , you enter the specification you want the design to meet including the dimensions and anything else you can think of then you push the button and AI goes to work ..... a few hours later the computer spits out a few proposed designs for you to look at ,you review them and tell the computer what you dont like and he makes the changes ...
Once you approve one final design the computer spits out all files you need to build it all you do is to send them off.
Its easy to see that this no longer requires a college degree and this means that many engineering jobs will go away !
But its not just engineering , actors , musicians , songwriters , screenwriters , setbuilders and many others associated with the movie industry will be affected too .
Imagine watching titanic but you dont like to see jack die ..... you tell AI to alter the end of the movie and one minute later rose wakes up as a old lady with jack by her side .... she only dreamed the whole thing ! AI can make movies or create songs that can be personalized by the consumer and this is going to be a game changer
I worked at a major university for years as a research engineer and when i was hired i was surprised to see what you can get a degree in , then i sat back and could not help but wonder how many folks that enrolled into some of those degrees actually ended up getting a job that paid a good salary .
It would be interesting to do a study one time to see what degrees students that defaulted on or are behind on their student loans graduated in .
This problem might not be as intractable as it appears.
Yes, AI can write papers for you. But the classic exam is in-class with a blue book and no computer.
If colleges have courage, they'll solve the AI problem by simply administering exams the old fashioned way. Colleges lacking that courage will quickly become known as unreliable sources for new hires.
Am I missing something here?
The simplest way I can see employers figure out who to hire is... TEST YOUR CANDIDATES. I think there's an opportunity here for just that. Wide ranging testing to find the best candidate is already being done. See the NYPD recruitment process for a good example
Testing has a “disparate impact” on blacks which is considered racist and unacceptable. Chicago’s fire dept. was sued for that I think in 2011 and fined $110M plus the passing score was lowered from 85 to 65 to insure equity. This is common all over the country. Heather MacDonald has written and has YouTube videos about it. She says it’s destroying our civilization. It already has.
"Rather, it is the manifestation of continual adjustments to the economic and technological capabilities and demands of the day."
If this is true, then why wouldn't it continue? If administrators and professors have adapted and adopted new technology, why is "accelerationism" all of a sudden necessary?
Many degrees are and will remain difficult. AI can do discrete mathematics, but it can't take a test in it, and to pass a test, in organic chemistry, or any of the other difficult math or science courses at a good university, you have to be smart and have studied.
I'd rather see a way for students to test out, in high school and college. The money saved in K-12 is potentially huge. How much does it cost to teach one student American History in High School? Pay half that to test out. Similarly with Algebra or Geometry. Kids could buy cars by testing out, teachers could take classes in auto repair.
Wow! Powerful and well stated. It’s long past time to change higher education and this essay provides the rationale for using AI to do just that.
I'm not persuaded. Especially when I see the claim in the essay that college students can't read a book, but following the link shows an article about college students failing because they can't read a book. The essay somehow neglected to mention the "failing" bit. In general, students at all levels are cheating a lot (and yes, misrepresenting AI's work as your own is cheating), but this is nothing new: students were using various sites to cheat before large language models were a thing. Throughout the pandemic, students were gaming "remote" exam systems to cheat, too. Yes, I suppose the value of college degrees will diminish for colleges who generally allow students to graduate by cheating their way through, and no doubt some short-sighted colleges will succumb to the temptation to close their eyes to the cheating and just collect the tuition. I suppose I can accept that the value of those particular colleges' degrees will go to zero. But colleges that require students to actually learn will persist, they will address the cheating as they have addressed cheating before, and the value of such degrees will remain.
EOs not withstanding, as long as Griggs v Duke Power is on the books, employers will continue to use degrees as a sorting mechanism until it becomes too painful to do so. By painful, I mean some sort of spectacular collapse caused by an incompetent employee. My first thought was that it would be a government employer but government is impervious to this. Perhaps something in the physical world then. Planes falling from sky, bridges collapsing. All this has happened before but not at scale.