In no case should the interest of the US be subordinated to that of a foreign country. That said, there are two reasons why Israel is special. First, they are both more capable and more reliable than any NATO ally to whom we have subordinated our interests for decades. Second, they are on the front lines of a major civilizational divide and it is in our interest to see that the border is secure.
Israel literally just did a strike in Qatar when Qatar is arguably our most important ally. If you are scratching your head wondering how Qatar is such an important ally then you need to brush up on the global LNG market which is supplanting oil as the most important global commodity market.
Let Israel Be Normal? NOTHING about Israel is normal. Its very existence is predicated on ethno-religious supremacy, implemented through a massive ethnic cleansing project at its founding, a project that continues to this day. It's run by sociopaths, many of whom would slide right into Hugo Boss SS uniforms and fit perfectly. Its lobbying apparatus warps all US policy, both foreign and domestic. No, this state is not normal, and it does not serve any healthy purpose for the citizens of the United States. It is not hyperbole to state that Israel is the greatest threat to freedom of speech here in the US, nor that it is most likely to blow the world to smithereens with the nuclear arsenal it possesses but refuses to declare or open to inspections. Meaning every penny of "aid" from the US is illegal under our own laws. We need to get as far away as possible from Israel. Netanyahu should be arrested the next time he attempts to set foot here, not given trained-seal standing ovations by the US Congress.
Hey look, another fool that thinks history began in 1945. Or is it 1932 for you. In Reality, the Turks didn't take over Israel in a referendum. Nor did they ask if Israel wanted a the Turkish empires problems exiled to Israeli lands. Welcome to history, it's bloody, nasty and goes back to the first time one clan of homo sapiens rallied another clan together to take over yet another clans territory and women. Before that, it was more of a nature documentary, rather then history.
What I'm om about is that you obviously don't know any of the history of Israel, the Region, Urban war fare, or US laws on foreign aid. You've clearly sucked down a bunch of popular culture mumbo jumbo seen through the lens of living in the most powerful and safest country on the planet.
Yet even then, like most spoiled Americans you fail to know our own recent history. After 9/11 we went on to start fights spanning the globe and killed over a hundred thousand people in Iraq and Afghanistan. America itself was founded as an ethno-religious state. One that had no history or claim to the land upon which it would be built.
Israel isn't a threat to freedom of speech anywhere. Modern Europe didn't write endless hate speech laws to keep the jews from rioting or it's native people from bad mouthing the jews. It's as the numbers of Muslims have grown and the native people of Europe have started to get louder about the need to stop immigration and talk about how Islam is a foul ideology, that the Europeans keep trying to censor their own people.
In other words, you are conveniently blaming Israel for all the failings of it's neighbors, Islam, and the failing Neo-liberal world order.
And yes, Israel and its unregistered agents in the US (not to mention the UK, Australia, Germany, and elsewhere) are pushing through laws criminalizing speech regarding Israel. For a current example of the Zionist lobby interfering in US politics, look at the massive funding they're putting into a campaign to oust Thomas Massie. Never mind Miriam Adelson. The Dems were beholden to Haim Saban to the same degree, for the same reason.
You think I'm ignorant of US foreign policy? I've been campaigning against endless US coups, sanction, and wars my entire life. Israel's entire existence is based on the violent expulsion or slaughter of the indigenous population. My people came from the Pale of Settlement, yet I would have more "right" under Israeli law to "return" to a place with which we have no connection whatsoever, while the Palestinians, whose roots go back millennia, are considered invaders. This isn't the 17th or 18th century. This is NOW. We're alive, we can see what is happening, we can choose either to oppose ethnic cleansing and genocide, or come up with excuses ("it's always happened") to support it. As a human being, a US Citizen, and a Jew, I choose to oppose it. Israel could not continue its rampage without massive US funding, arms supply, and diplomatic cover. So, to get back to the original post: NO, let's NOT "make Israel normal."
Let's game this out. So we make it official, no more questioning. Israel is a nuclear armed power. So what happens next. We're not going to cut off aid just because some activists filed a law suit. We'll just change the law or find a loop hole.
Oh, but now that it's official, what are the Saudis going to do about this. Might they decide that they also need nukes. If the Saudis get nuke, might the Jordanians feel the need. We already know Iran was trying to get to the position that they could rapidly assemble and test nukes. They are the ultimate defensive weapon.
When India first tested their nuke, they set off three. Not only to prove they had the capabilities but that they had already built more then just the one test bomb. Now this move was directed at China, but that pushed Pakistan to get nukes. For the same reason. India to stop China from taking it's territory and Pakistan to make sure India didn't decide to take Pakistan territory.
So yes, we played along with the fiction and so did the Saudis, Jordanians, Egyptians and so on. The rest of the middle east understands why the Israelis have them, but don't want to get into an arms race with all the other Muslim states.
Would Saddam have threatened Saudi Arabia with a nuclear attack after he took Kuwait. Would he have threatened to nuke Tel Aviv is the western nations interfered. How about the Iran, Iraq war. Would one of them used a nuke to win. How would Bashar Al-assad used his nukes in the recent Syrian civil war.
Don't get me wrong, this game of pretend couldn't go on forever. We also can't stick the genie back in the bottle. You say you know all about our foreign policy but seem completely unaware of most of it. Much less why we have done what we have done over the years.
I'm not going to say "The Nation" is useless. I read articles from it every now and then. Yet they are far closer to the "narrow conspiracy world view" mindset then the "whole of extents world view" that makes one much better informed about the real world and it's many problems.
I grabbed that article from The Nation (not a usual read for me the last decade or more, as the publication lost its mind during Russiagate and Trump 1.0) just as a handy source on the matter of the legality (under US law) of the billions we've been sending to Israel.
You are right about the logic of nuclear proliferation. If anything, the Iranians have been the more rational actor through all of this. But we have come to the point where, as John Mearsheimer (iirc) and others say, the Iranians would be fools NOT to develop a nuclear weapon. MAD may prove the only way to restrain the madmen in Tel Aviv. So far, Iran has relied on its conventional missiles to serve as a deterrent. Hence the absurdity of the US/Israel demand that Iran eliminate those, leaving it defenseless.
It is Israel that has threatened the use of nukes against other countries in the region, not the other way 'round. And yet, we are supposed to listen to Netanyahu and all the rest bleating on about the need to inspect and shut down any Iranian program, while never admitting the existence of their own program, let alone permitting inspections. Mordechai Vanunu revealed it all to the British press way back in 1986. Good luck getting any US news media outlet to print the truth about the real Israeli nuclear weapons arsenal, while whipping us all into a lather over a hypothetical Iranian bomb. The hypocrisy is on full display, and can't go on forever.
I hear Tucker is looking to expand his team. You would qualify! Or maybe you're already on it. Don't be modest.....are you the one who wrote Tucker's line at Charlie's memorial -- where he accused "the hummus eaters" of killing Charlie....You know, he helpfully explained, just like they killed Christ. Go for it!! You would be great, and I'm told it pays well (just don't be too nosy about the $$ source).
Let me respond as politely as I can: go screw yourself. I'm Jewish. But I'm a human being first. Israel is like a fun-house mirror, inverted version of Nazism. Only this time, it's Jewish Supremacy running roughshod over the Palestinian Untermenschen. Do you support one person, one vote? If you do, you cannot support Israel. If you don't, don't pretend to support human rights, or democratic values.
You equate being Jewish with the State of Israel, and with the ACTIONS of that State. That conflation will only increase anti-Jewish sentiment in the world, because the actions are genocidal. Sorry, but I'm not anti-Jewish. I'm anti-genocidal Jewish Supremacism. If you don't understand the difference, think harder. Plenty of Jews opposed the Zionist project from the get-go, and plenty more do now.
"the core political problem is not so much obnoxious NIMBYism as the core economic interests of the Americans who built wealth in exactly the way they were told they should."
No, no, a hundred times no. The growth in home equity in the past twenty years is fundamentally unlike the entirety of American history. From 1870 to 1998, in real terms, the index was always between 80 and 120. Now it's 200.
How is any mention of the Greenland ordeal omitted in this round-up? We want Europe to join our tariff scheme against China, while we simultaneously fling gratuitous shit in their face?
"We have a .. commonality of Interests.." with Israel. A core interest of Israel seems to be Israel "from the river to the sea" including annexing the West Bank. Certainly not a core interest of the U.S. ...
I believe the current US support is based on not offending the Christian Evangelical support of Israel, a large voting block in the US.
The Evangelical's support of Israel appears based on the belief that the Jews of Israel and worldwide will eventually convert to Christianity. When they finally realize that's not going to happen, they won't hesitate to throw their support for Israel and Jews everywhere under the bus. It's not if, but when.
Our support for Israel is simple to understand. They are a Judeo Christian state that is surrounded by barbaric neighbors. They have been and are still willing to spend a lot of their own blood and treasure defending their territory and heritage. Which is better then almost all the rest of our allies. So we give them aid. Makes a heck of lot more sense then giving aid to Egypt, until you realize that, that aid is also spent to help defend Israel.
Most of our foreign aid programs make very little sense and are chock full of corruption. Israel is one of the few that are actually smart and fairly well run.
In no case should the interest of the US be subordinated to that of a foreign country. That said, there are two reasons why Israel is special. First, they are both more capable and more reliable than any NATO ally to whom we have subordinated our interests for decades. Second, they are on the front lines of a major civilizational divide and it is in our interest to see that the border is secure.
Israel literally just did a strike in Qatar when Qatar is arguably our most important ally. If you are scratching your head wondering how Qatar is such an important ally then you need to brush up on the global LNG market which is supplanting oil as the most important global commodity market.
Let Israel Be Normal? NOTHING about Israel is normal. Its very existence is predicated on ethno-religious supremacy, implemented through a massive ethnic cleansing project at its founding, a project that continues to this day. It's run by sociopaths, many of whom would slide right into Hugo Boss SS uniforms and fit perfectly. Its lobbying apparatus warps all US policy, both foreign and domestic. No, this state is not normal, and it does not serve any healthy purpose for the citizens of the United States. It is not hyperbole to state that Israel is the greatest threat to freedom of speech here in the US, nor that it is most likely to blow the world to smithereens with the nuclear arsenal it possesses but refuses to declare or open to inspections. Meaning every penny of "aid" from the US is illegal under our own laws. We need to get as far away as possible from Israel. Netanyahu should be arrested the next time he attempts to set foot here, not given trained-seal standing ovations by the US Congress.
Hey look, another fool that thinks history began in 1945. Or is it 1932 for you. In Reality, the Turks didn't take over Israel in a referendum. Nor did they ask if Israel wanted a the Turkish empires problems exiled to Israeli lands. Welcome to history, it's bloody, nasty and goes back to the first time one clan of homo sapiens rallied another clan together to take over yet another clans territory and women. Before that, it was more of a nature documentary, rather then history.
WTF are you on about?
What I'm om about is that you obviously don't know any of the history of Israel, the Region, Urban war fare, or US laws on foreign aid. You've clearly sucked down a bunch of popular culture mumbo jumbo seen through the lens of living in the most powerful and safest country on the planet.
Yet even then, like most spoiled Americans you fail to know our own recent history. After 9/11 we went on to start fights spanning the globe and killed over a hundred thousand people in Iraq and Afghanistan. America itself was founded as an ethno-religious state. One that had no history or claim to the land upon which it would be built.
Israel isn't a threat to freedom of speech anywhere. Modern Europe didn't write endless hate speech laws to keep the jews from rioting or it's native people from bad mouthing the jews. It's as the numbers of Muslims have grown and the native people of Europe have started to get louder about the need to stop immigration and talk about how Islam is a foul ideology, that the Europeans keep trying to censor their own people.
In other words, you are conveniently blaming Israel for all the failings of it's neighbors, Islam, and the failing Neo-liberal world order.
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-nuclear-weapons/# Glenn Amendment.
And yes, Israel and its unregistered agents in the US (not to mention the UK, Australia, Germany, and elsewhere) are pushing through laws criminalizing speech regarding Israel. For a current example of the Zionist lobby interfering in US politics, look at the massive funding they're putting into a campaign to oust Thomas Massie. Never mind Miriam Adelson. The Dems were beholden to Haim Saban to the same degree, for the same reason.
You think I'm ignorant of US foreign policy? I've been campaigning against endless US coups, sanction, and wars my entire life. Israel's entire existence is based on the violent expulsion or slaughter of the indigenous population. My people came from the Pale of Settlement, yet I would have more "right" under Israeli law to "return" to a place with which we have no connection whatsoever, while the Palestinians, whose roots go back millennia, are considered invaders. This isn't the 17th or 18th century. This is NOW. We're alive, we can see what is happening, we can choose either to oppose ethnic cleansing and genocide, or come up with excuses ("it's always happened") to support it. As a human being, a US Citizen, and a Jew, I choose to oppose it. Israel could not continue its rampage without massive US funding, arms supply, and diplomatic cover. So, to get back to the original post: NO, let's NOT "make Israel normal."
Let's game this out. So we make it official, no more questioning. Israel is a nuclear armed power. So what happens next. We're not going to cut off aid just because some activists filed a law suit. We'll just change the law or find a loop hole.
Oh, but now that it's official, what are the Saudis going to do about this. Might they decide that they also need nukes. If the Saudis get nuke, might the Jordanians feel the need. We already know Iran was trying to get to the position that they could rapidly assemble and test nukes. They are the ultimate defensive weapon.
When India first tested their nuke, they set off three. Not only to prove they had the capabilities but that they had already built more then just the one test bomb. Now this move was directed at China, but that pushed Pakistan to get nukes. For the same reason. India to stop China from taking it's territory and Pakistan to make sure India didn't decide to take Pakistan territory.
So yes, we played along with the fiction and so did the Saudis, Jordanians, Egyptians and so on. The rest of the middle east understands why the Israelis have them, but don't want to get into an arms race with all the other Muslim states.
Would Saddam have threatened Saudi Arabia with a nuclear attack after he took Kuwait. Would he have threatened to nuke Tel Aviv is the western nations interfered. How about the Iran, Iraq war. Would one of them used a nuke to win. How would Bashar Al-assad used his nukes in the recent Syrian civil war.
Don't get me wrong, this game of pretend couldn't go on forever. We also can't stick the genie back in the bottle. You say you know all about our foreign policy but seem completely unaware of most of it. Much less why we have done what we have done over the years.
I'm not going to say "The Nation" is useless. I read articles from it every now and then. Yet they are far closer to the "narrow conspiracy world view" mindset then the "whole of extents world view" that makes one much better informed about the real world and it's many problems.
I grabbed that article from The Nation (not a usual read for me the last decade or more, as the publication lost its mind during Russiagate and Trump 1.0) just as a handy source on the matter of the legality (under US law) of the billions we've been sending to Israel.
You are right about the logic of nuclear proliferation. If anything, the Iranians have been the more rational actor through all of this. But we have come to the point where, as John Mearsheimer (iirc) and others say, the Iranians would be fools NOT to develop a nuclear weapon. MAD may prove the only way to restrain the madmen in Tel Aviv. So far, Iran has relied on its conventional missiles to serve as a deterrent. Hence the absurdity of the US/Israel demand that Iran eliminate those, leaving it defenseless.
It is Israel that has threatened the use of nukes against other countries in the region, not the other way 'round. And yet, we are supposed to listen to Netanyahu and all the rest bleating on about the need to inspect and shut down any Iranian program, while never admitting the existence of their own program, let alone permitting inspections. Mordechai Vanunu revealed it all to the British press way back in 1986. Good luck getting any US news media outlet to print the truth about the real Israeli nuclear weapons arsenal, while whipping us all into a lather over a hypothetical Iranian bomb. The hypocrisy is on full display, and can't go on forever.
I hear Tucker is looking to expand his team. You would qualify! Or maybe you're already on it. Don't be modest.....are you the one who wrote Tucker's line at Charlie's memorial -- where he accused "the hummus eaters" of killing Charlie....You know, he helpfully explained, just like they killed Christ. Go for it!! You would be great, and I'm told it pays well (just don't be too nosy about the $$ source).
Let me respond as politely as I can: go screw yourself. I'm Jewish. But I'm a human being first. Israel is like a fun-house mirror, inverted version of Nazism. Only this time, it's Jewish Supremacy running roughshod over the Palestinian Untermenschen. Do you support one person, one vote? If you do, you cannot support Israel. If you don't, don't pretend to support human rights, or democratic values.
Ah, you're Jewish! Perfect! Damn, Tucker will love it !! A Jew-hating Jew!
You equate being Jewish with the State of Israel, and with the ACTIONS of that State. That conflation will only increase anti-Jewish sentiment in the world, because the actions are genocidal. Sorry, but I'm not anti-Jewish. I'm anti-genocidal Jewish Supremacism. If you don't understand the difference, think harder. Plenty of Jews opposed the Zionist project from the get-go, and plenty more do now.
"the core political problem is not so much obnoxious NIMBYism as the core economic interests of the Americans who built wealth in exactly the way they were told they should."
No, no, a hundred times no. The growth in home equity in the past twenty years is fundamentally unlike the entirety of American history. From 1870 to 1998, in real terms, the index was always between 80 and 120. Now it's 200.
https://kevinerdmann.substack.com/p/case-shiller-and-filtering
Housing has been consumed by finance capitalism. It is killing the traditional American promise of a non-aristocratic society. Tocqueville weeps.
How is any mention of the Greenland ordeal omitted in this round-up? We want Europe to join our tariff scheme against China, while we simultaneously fling gratuitous shit in their face?
"We have a .. commonality of Interests.." with Israel. A core interest of Israel seems to be Israel "from the river to the sea" including annexing the West Bank. Certainly not a core interest of the U.S. ...
I believe the current US support is based on not offending the Christian Evangelical support of Israel, a large voting block in the US.
The Evangelical's support of Israel appears based on the belief that the Jews of Israel and worldwide will eventually convert to Christianity. When they finally realize that's not going to happen, they won't hesitate to throw their support for Israel and Jews everywhere under the bus. It's not if, but when.
Our support for Israel is simple to understand. They are a Judeo Christian state that is surrounded by barbaric neighbors. They have been and are still willing to spend a lot of their own blood and treasure defending their territory and heritage. Which is better then almost all the rest of our allies. So we give them aid. Makes a heck of lot more sense then giving aid to Egypt, until you realize that, that aid is also spent to help defend Israel.
Most of our foreign aid programs make very little sense and are chock full of corruption. Israel is one of the few that are actually smart and fairly well run.
So what?