Cass is intellectual dishonest though by conflating NAFTA with China into the WTO. NAFTA was great for American manufacturing and he’s implying that Lawrence somehow manipulated the Bush administration into doing nothing as we hemorrhaged jobs to China which is absurd.
Bush believed making China great again was good for America and unfortunately he used his over 80% approval rating to steamroll everyone with economic and foreign policy. And remember in 2008 Bush’s last foreign trip was a victory lap at the Beijing Olympics…Bush made China great again by shipping working class jobs to China and shipping the sons and daughters of the working class to Iraq and Afghanistan.
It doesn't matter. The isolationists control the entire federal government, again. The free trade crowd was kicked out of the party years ago. It's time to man up and take responsibility. The backward looking grievance has become boring.
Adam Smith knew that there is no such thing as pure economics in the real world. There was and always will be only political economy. The economists of twentieth century, especially after the fall of Soviet Union, forgot about the political part and fell for the lunacy of pure economics. It's just like open borders for the sake of universal human rights. It was utterly insane.
That’s incorrect. We’ve added manufacturing jobs since 2010 and Biden accelerated the adding of manufacturing jobs and yet the people that were most vocal about wanting more manufacturing jobs voted for the party that shipped the jobs to China. So the problem is the right wing echo chamber pushing false narratives that confuse Americans into voting against their economic interests.
That’s what Cass is doing. I don’t care about partisanship….Bush was an awful president that did awful things that’s just reality. Trump’s first term featured Bush retreads and it wasn’t as awful because at least Trump figured it out eventually.
I agreed that GWB screwed up big time, thanks in part to advices from the Harvard economists on this panel. I also agree that Trump made and is making plenty of mistakes. But I think it’s lunacy to claim that Biden made better economic policies than Trump did.
If you understand what happened in 2020 with $250 billion in PPP fraud and then unfortunately Republicans rejected the vaccine in 2021 and then the crazy weather events in TX/Louisiana starting in August 2020 then that is the reason for the difference in inflation between America and EU prior to Putin invading Ukraine.
"Free trade" and from the people who say there is no free lunch? What?
Your republican party I would join!
The university = The "New Religion" (religion of nihilism)
Katherine and Oren, spot on thank you both for your intelligence and mostly intellectual honesty. You're the type people we need to take us into the future.
His legacy is forever lashed to Don, the father of the “new” right. He knowingly bought the Don ticket, along with his shapeshifter bud JD. Now he’s takin the ride:).
And, why doesn’t DonOrenomics entail taking the taco tariffs to the supine Congress for approval? To achieve the manufacturing renaissance we’ve been promised, shouldn’t they be permanent? Maybe that would help reverse the manufacturing employment declines we experienced in Don’s first year?
We all have a choice to make, especially elites with a platform. Like Oren, I've made mine.
My post doesn't remotely compare to our president's online presence. But, his would seem to matter more? Try reading his daily bleats-every word, every day. Then ruminate on the fact the loon has his finger on the button.
From this clip I have no fucking clue what you were debating. It starts with Chinese EVs and then veered off. What this dialogue continuous or did you cut parts?
I didn't get the whole conversation but I would point out that this has become the standard operating playbook for those still trying to defend the idea of free trade. They prefer to constantly twist and change directions to avoid answering specific questions or defending specific actions.
In the 90s i backpacked throughout SE Asia. I remember a fishing village of bamboo huts on stilts with a single wire tenuously strung from hut to hut. On my rickshaw ride to the local pier i could see into each home. I’ll never forget; each had a handful of young kids watching Cartoon Network & spongebob on an old tv. I knew then there are multitudes of ppl who want a little bit of what we had: AC, plumbing, refrigerator, maybe even a car…
All these professors, economists, policy wonks have debated globalization without ever understanding what a person in the developing world would do to have a better standard of living- similar to the west. Globalization was a tsunami that would never have been impeded by a dike of protectionism. Could we have smoothed things around the edges with better policies? Sure. But probably 1billion ppl were brought out of subsistence poverty during those two decades. It would take great hubris to think we could've stopped force like that.
It was never a question of stopping it. We weren't going to stop anti-biotics from greatly improving life expectancy either. The question is more about how we shaped it and whether that particular model is working. To which the answer is that in disconnect trade from things like mutual defense, shared values and rule of law, we inadvertently created a massive tragedy of the commons.
We're undermining and punishing the democratic allied nations that reasonably protect their own workers and environments, by rewarding the corrupt and/or authoritarian nations that exploit their own people and pollute their own environments. That has led us to the point in time where those corrupt and authoritarian nations are now stealing the territories of their weaker neighbors. Meanwhile the democratic responsible nations are struggling to respond since many of them have gotten to used to beggaring their fellow democratic nations to try and defend their industries from those corrupt and/or authoritarian nations that keep undermining their domestic industries.
Or, we reward the lack of worker's right and environmental protects, as well as the corruption that is Mexico. This even while we ignore the drug smuggling, human trafficking as well as how the Mexican government keeps siding with other corrupt nations like Cuba and Venezuela, who in turn are aligned with Russia and China. This punishes Canada for protecting their workers and environment by hollowing out their industrial base. Meanwhile we keep demanding the Canadians spend their own blood and treasure helping us fight the pirates and chase the terrorists that are attacking the foreign supply chains feeding those Mexican factories.
I just went over to the American Compass to read the full debate, which was pretty fun for me. Not too wonky and easy to follow, even with bits of humor.
I'm going to rename my first born Tai.
It's interesting that economists recognise a problem, and it is worldwide. Let's see if they, we, can fix it.
The Free Trade people sound like a bunch of insufferable pricks.
Cass is intellectual dishonest though by conflating NAFTA with China into the WTO. NAFTA was great for American manufacturing and he’s implying that Lawrence somehow manipulated the Bush administration into doing nothing as we hemorrhaged jobs to China which is absurd.
Bush believed making China great again was good for America and unfortunately he used his over 80% approval rating to steamroll everyone with economic and foreign policy. And remember in 2008 Bush’s last foreign trip was a victory lap at the Beijing Olympics…Bush made China great again by shipping working class jobs to China and shipping the sons and daughters of the working class to Iraq and Afghanistan.
It doesn't matter. The isolationists control the entire federal government, again. The free trade crowd was kicked out of the party years ago. It's time to man up and take responsibility. The backward looking grievance has become boring.
Adam Smith knew that there is no such thing as pure economics in the real world. There was and always will be only political economy. The economists of twentieth century, especially after the fall of Soviet Union, forgot about the political part and fell for the lunacy of pure economics. It's just like open borders for the sake of universal human rights. It was utterly insane.
That’s incorrect. We’ve added manufacturing jobs since 2010 and Biden accelerated the adding of manufacturing jobs and yet the people that were most vocal about wanting more manufacturing jobs voted for the party that shipped the jobs to China. So the problem is the right wing echo chamber pushing false narratives that confuse Americans into voting against their economic interests.
You are reducing politics to partisanship, that’s a road to hell for sure
That’s what Cass is doing. I don’t care about partisanship….Bush was an awful president that did awful things that’s just reality. Trump’s first term featured Bush retreads and it wasn’t as awful because at least Trump figured it out eventually.
I agreed that GWB screwed up big time, thanks in part to advices from the Harvard economists on this panel. I also agree that Trump made and is making plenty of mistakes. But I think it’s lunacy to claim that Biden made better economic policies than Trump did.
If you understand what happened in 2020 with $250 billion in PPP fraud and then unfortunately Republicans rejected the vaccine in 2021 and then the crazy weather events in TX/Louisiana starting in August 2020 then that is the reason for the difference in inflation between America and EU prior to Putin invading Ukraine.
"Free trade" and from the people who say there is no free lunch? What?
Your republican party I would join!
The university = The "New Religion" (religion of nihilism)
Katherine and Oren, spot on thank you both for your intelligence and mostly intellectual honesty. You're the type people we need to take us into the future.
Larry Summers??
Good discussion. Thanks for the link to the transcript.
Oren, Winnie the Pooh in a tuxedo:)
His legacy is forever lashed to Don, the father of the “new” right. He knowingly bought the Don ticket, along with his shapeshifter bud JD. Now he’s takin the ride:).
And, why doesn’t DonOrenomics entail taking the taco tariffs to the supine Congress for approval? To achieve the manufacturing renaissance we’ve been promised, shouldn’t they be permanent? Maybe that would help reverse the manufacturing employment declines we experienced in Don’s first year?
Rude. As in not helpful.
We all have a choice to make, especially elites with a platform. Like Oren, I've made mine.
My post doesn't remotely compare to our president's online presence. But, his would seem to matter more? Try reading his daily bleats-every word, every day. Then ruminate on the fact the loon has his finger on the button.
Good luck America.
is there an audio recording available?
From this clip I have no fucking clue what you were debating. It starts with Chinese EVs and then veered off. What this dialogue continuous or did you cut parts?
I didn't get the whole conversation but I would point out that this has become the standard operating playbook for those still trying to defend the idea of free trade. They prefer to constantly twist and change directions to avoid answering specific questions or defending specific actions.
In the 90s i backpacked throughout SE Asia. I remember a fishing village of bamboo huts on stilts with a single wire tenuously strung from hut to hut. On my rickshaw ride to the local pier i could see into each home. I’ll never forget; each had a handful of young kids watching Cartoon Network & spongebob on an old tv. I knew then there are multitudes of ppl who want a little bit of what we had: AC, plumbing, refrigerator, maybe even a car…
All these professors, economists, policy wonks have debated globalization without ever understanding what a person in the developing world would do to have a better standard of living- similar to the west. Globalization was a tsunami that would never have been impeded by a dike of protectionism. Could we have smoothed things around the edges with better policies? Sure. But probably 1billion ppl were brought out of subsistence poverty during those two decades. It would take great hubris to think we could've stopped force like that.
It was never a question of stopping it. We weren't going to stop anti-biotics from greatly improving life expectancy either. The question is more about how we shaped it and whether that particular model is working. To which the answer is that in disconnect trade from things like mutual defense, shared values and rule of law, we inadvertently created a massive tragedy of the commons.
We're undermining and punishing the democratic allied nations that reasonably protect their own workers and environments, by rewarding the corrupt and/or authoritarian nations that exploit their own people and pollute their own environments. That has led us to the point in time where those corrupt and authoritarian nations are now stealing the territories of their weaker neighbors. Meanwhile the democratic responsible nations are struggling to respond since many of them have gotten to used to beggaring their fellow democratic nations to try and defend their industries from those corrupt and/or authoritarian nations that keep undermining their domestic industries.
Or, we reward the lack of worker's right and environmental protects, as well as the corruption that is Mexico. This even while we ignore the drug smuggling, human trafficking as well as how the Mexican government keeps siding with other corrupt nations like Cuba and Venezuela, who in turn are aligned with Russia and China. This punishes Canada for protecting their workers and environment by hollowing out their industrial base. Meanwhile we keep demanding the Canadians spend their own blood and treasure helping us fight the pirates and chase the terrorists that are attacking the foreign supply chains feeding those Mexican factories.
That's the short version.
I just went over to the American Compass to read the full debate, which was pretty fun for me. Not too wonky and easy to follow, even with bits of humor.
I'm going to rename my first born Tai.
It's interesting that economists recognise a problem, and it is worldwide. Let's see if they, we, can fix it.
Thank you for this!